How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?


Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:04 pm

Guest wrote:
Buddy, it’s a complete Branch if hockey in Ontario, just like OHF. Then there’s the GTHL. So one is to big, one not big enough. Do you always try to twist facts to meet your controlling needs. Being afraid of competition has ruined the quality of minor Hockey. It’s a simple reality that plays itself out everyday in the real world.


You want real world - GTHL has no possible way of working with borders, aside from the fact it works with borders in relation to the LOR - OMHA teams around it. Add to that the sheer volume of players and teams in such a small geographic area. Is the GTHL "free choice" - yes. Is it a great alternative to residency based teams - not if you read anything written here.

HNO covers a HUGE area and has 5326 players registered - the smallest population in HC. If you could provide stats as to how the "freedom of choice"has worked and how many players are taking advantage of it, that would perhaps suit your argument. Lets face it - 5326 players spread across the geographic mass that HNO covers - hardly really a case to consider.

That is the real world. Next time try to consider all realities before you start speaking about the "real world".
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:04 pm

BANGO BONGO!!
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:23 pm

Guest wrote:Why are the rules different for different ages, or areas. I know that HEO has nonopen borders for any division or level. Seems that minor hockey is just a bunch of individual solos run by self interested people who aren’t in consensus with anyone else in the province.


The rules are different because of changes lobbied for by the different orgs over the years. HEO is the only body running hockey in their area, just like HNO is the only governing body in their area. Having that kind of monopoly allows them to run hockey as it’s suits the needs of their residents. The Golden Horseshoe and neighboring areas are not as simple- there’s the GTHL, Alliance, OMHA and ORHL with overlap in some areas. The organizations came up with rules to permit movement, prevent encroachment and poaching and to try to get along. The GTHL cannot follow simple residency rules like everyone else because of the nature of team ownership and locations as well as the geography of the city. Players are released each year and are free to go wherever they want (it wasn’t always this way, GTHL teams used to have a 2 yr lock on their players). This model of free movement has caused everyone else to envy the freedom of choice. The LOR agreement allows limited movement with “home”teams having first right of refusal. Previously MB and older used to require releases while younger ages were free to move. Last year that was reversed and now Novice to Pewee requires releases while MB and older are free to move. The idea is that as you get older and and pursue hockey dreams, you should be free to choose your mentor and training. At the younger ages, kids are all learning the same basic skills and movement or lack thereof won’t be a limiting factor.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:36 pm

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Buddy, it’s a complete Branch if hockey in Ontario, just like OHF. Then there’s the GTHL. So one is to big, one not big enough. Do you always try to twist facts to meet your controlling needs. Being afraid of competition has ruined the quality of minor Hockey. It’s a simple reality that plays itself out everyday in the real world.


You want real world - GTHL has no possible way of working with borders, aside from the fact it works with borders in relation to the LOR - OMHA teams around it. Add to that the sheer volume of players and teams in such a small geographic area. Is the GTHL "free choice" - yes. Is it a great alternative to residency based teams - not if you read anything written here.

HNO covers a HUGE area and has 5326 players registered - the smallest population in HC. If you could provide stats as to how the "freedom of choice"has worked and how many players are taking advantage of it, that would perhaps suit your argument. Lets face it - 5326 players spread across the geographic mass that HNO covers - hardly really a case to consider.

That is the real world. Next time try to consider all realities before you start speaking about the "real world".



Perhaps you could provide some “real world” stats why the GTHL could not work in a border based system. Let’s face it, that statement is baseless and has no STATS to back it up. No possible way of working with borders, says who-you?

Just sayin.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:38 pm

LOBBY hahaha that special word. Just add the $$$$$ signs and fits nicely into this thread LOL

All this crap just to play a freaking game.

And there are no friend picks either in this squeaky clean system :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:40 pm

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Why are the rules different for different ages, or areas. I know that HEO has nonopen borders for any division or level. Seems that minor hockey is just a bunch of individual solos run by self interested people who aren’t in consensus with anyone else in the province.


The rules are different because of changes lobbied for by the different orgs over the years. HEO is the only body running hockey in their area, just like HNO is the only governing body in their area. Having that kind of monopoly allows them to run hockey as it’s suits the needs of their residents. The Golden Horseshoe and neighboring areas are not as simple- there’s the GTHL, Alliance, OMHA and ORHL with overlap in some areas. The organizations came up with rules to permit movement, prevent encroachment and poaching and to try to get along. The GTHL cannot follow simple residency rules like everyone else because of the nature of team ownership and locations as well as the geography of the city. Players are released each year and are free to go wherever they want (it wasn’t always this way, GTHL teams used to have a 2 yr lock on their players). This model of free movement has caused everyone else to envy the freedom of choice. The LOR agreement allows limited movement with “home”teams having first right of refusal. Previously MB and older used to require releases while younger ages were free to move. Last year that was reversed and now Novice to Pewee requires releases while MB and older are free to move. The idea is that as you get older and and pursue hockey dreams, you should be free to choose your mentor and training. At the younger ages, kids are all learning the same basic skills and movement or lack thereof won’t be a limiting factor.


Lots of individuals deciding what is good for the rest of us. Kind of like a dictatorship. Nowhere near else does policy restrict where a person can shop for a product or service
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Guest wrote:LOBBY hahaha that special word. Just add the $$$$$ signs and fits nicely into this thread LOL

All this crap just to play a freaking game.

And there are no friend picks either in this squeaky clean system :lol: :lol: :lol:



Do whatever you like, just open it up so people can chis what they want. Why so much red tape and policy for a freakin game? Se ma like you just want shinny on the Ole ODR. Back to the grassroots eh! I bet you walked uphill to school in the morning and evening to. Good times.
0 x

Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 11:44 pm

Guest wrote:LOBBY hahaha that special word. Just add the $$$$$ signs and fits nicely into this thread LOL

All this crap just to play a freaking game.

And there are no friend picks either in this squeaky clean system :lol: :lol: :lol:



Do whatever you like, just open it up so people can chis what they want. Why so much red tape and policy for a freakin game? Se ma like you just want shinny on the Ole ODR. Back to the grassroots eh! I bet you walked uphill to school in the morning and evening to. Good times.
0 x

Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 12:03 am

Guest wrote:

Buddy, it’s a complete Branch if hockey in Ontario, just like OHF. Then there’s the GTHL. So one is to big, one not big enough. Do you always try to twist facts to meet your controlling needs. Being afraid of competition has ruined the quality of minor Hockey. It’s a simple reality that plays itself out everyday in the real world.


You continue to make no sense. Minor hockey is full of competition. You’ve lost one competition and you’re here whining- ruining the quality of minor hockey. Residency is a common way of organizing non-professional leagues all over the world. In some countries/provinces/sports, you play for the school you attend. They also have rules to prevent people jumping from school to school and forming super teams. The OHL, QMJHL and WHL operate based on residency rules. And their residency rules even take into account international movements. If your boy makes it to junior hockey are you going to rant because you can’t be freely drafted by a WHL or QMJHL team? Or maybe you’ll sue the US NTDP for only allowing US citizens- what’s up with their citizens rule? While at it, why don’t you make a fuss that your boy wants to one day play for USA Hockey and shouldn’t be forced to play for Canada simply because he’s Canadian and lives here.

Is it perfect? no. Is the GTHL perfect? NO!!!! HNO probably opened borders to encourage people to move to keep some of their teams alive. The only people there who want to move are the people living along zone borders who may live closer to a team that’s not their zone. Do you think they want to drive an extra hour and half just because they can?

Rules are rules and there are many provisions to allow fairly free movement depending on situations. Your situation clearly does not apply or you don’t know all the rules and how to use them to your advantage. Ask the right questions. Attacking Oakville for following their own rules will get you nowhere.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 12:04 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Buddy, it’s a complete Branch if hockey in Ontario, just like OHF. Then there’s the GTHL. So one is to big, one not big enough. Do you always try to twist facts to meet your controlling needs. Being afraid of competition has ruined the quality of minor Hockey. It’s a simple reality that plays itself out everyday in the real world.


You want real world - GTHL has no possible way of working with borders, aside from the fact it works with borders in relation to the LOR - OMHA teams around it. Add to that the sheer volume of players and teams in such a small geographic area. Is the GTHL "free choice" - yes. Is it a great alternative to residency based teams - not if you read anything written here.

HNO covers a HUGE area and has 5326 players registered - the smallest population in HC. If you could provide stats as to how the "freedom of choice"has worked and how many players are taking advantage of it, that would perhaps suit your argument. Lets face it - 5326 players spread across the geographic mass that HNO covers - hardly really a case to consider.

That is the real world. Next time try to consider all realities before you start speaking about the "real world".



Perhaps you could provide some “real world” stats why the GTHL could not work in a border based system. Let’s face it, that statement is baseless and has no STATS to back it up. No possible way of working with borders, says who-you?

Just sayin.


So now you want proof that a residency system could work?
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 12:15 am

Guest wrote:
Lots of individuals deciding what is good for the rest of us. Kind of like a dictatorship. Nowhere near else does policy restrict where a person can shop for a product or service


You can go to the AGM and vote for change. You can volunteer or get elected and get involved in change. Also, you don’t have to put your kid in hockey.

And all around there are lots of individuals deciding what’s good for the rest of us. You don’t choose the taxes you pay, make laws or policies, or even choose what your kids learn at school. You probably can’t even choose what school they go to without faking your address. The last time I checked you called this system democracy. So quit it with the dictatorship garbage.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 6:54 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Buddy, it’s a complete Branch if hockey in Ontario, just like OHF. Then there’s the GTHL. So one is to big, one not big enough. Do you always try to twist facts to meet your controlling needs. Being afraid of competition has ruined the quality of minor Hockey. It’s a simple reality that plays itself out everyday in the real world.


You want real world - GTHL has no possible way of working with borders, aside from the fact it works with borders in relation to the LOR - OMHA teams around it. Add to that the sheer volume of players and teams in such a small geographic area. Is the GTHL "free choice" - yes. Is it a great alternative to residency based teams - not if you read anything written here.

HNO covers a HUGE area and has 5326 players registered - the smallest population in HC. If you could provide stats as to how the "freedom of choice"has worked and how many players are taking advantage of it, that would perhaps suit your argument. Lets face it - 5326 players spread across the geographic mass that HNO covers - hardly really a case to consider.

That is the real world. Next time try to consider all realities before you start speaking about the "real world".



Perhaps you could provide some “real world” stats why the GTHL could not work in a border based system. Let’s face it, that statement is baseless and has no STATS to back it up. No possible way of working with borders, says who-you?

Just sayin.


So now you want proof that a residency system could work?


No just responding to your demand for facts. You give some numbers about HNO but merely make suppositions about why boundaries wouldn’t work in the GTHL. So you give facts here and guess there. Typical executive eaybto justify a decision when you have no facts.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 7:04 am

Do residency rules work,don’t know. I do know that more kids play hockey in Ontario in open border systems. Add up the GTHL, HNO and all of girls hockey and more kids are free to play where they want. Soccer is the biggest sport in Canada by participation having double the participants as hockey and it has no boundaries.

So to say that boundaries are needed is false as proved by the alternative working better-as in girl’s hockey and soccer is growing much faster than boys hockey, and more kids play in open border systems, and the biggest sport in the province works in an open border system.


Please do justify to us all why minor hockey in SOME areas NEED borders. Also explain why “some” associations have different rules such as for Bantam aged players being allowed to move, than others. Everyone falls under HC rules don’t they?

You are afraid of what people will chose if given REAL
Choice. You have a desire to control other people.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 7:09 am

Guest wrote:Do residency rules work,don’t know. I do know that more kids play hockey in Ontario in open border systems. Add up the GTHL, HNO and all of girls hockey and more kids are free to play where they want. Soccer is the biggest sport in Canada by participation having double the participants as hockey and it has no boundaries.

So to say that boundaries are needed is false as proved by the alternative working better-as in girl’s hockey and soccer is growing much faster than boys hockey, and more kids play in open border systems, and the biggest sport in the province works in an open border system.


Please do justify to us all why minor hockey in SOME areas NEED borders. Also explain why “some” associations have different rules such as for Bantam aged players being allowed to move, than others. Everyone falls under HC rules don’t they?

You are afraid of what people will chose if given REAL
Choice. You have a desire to control other people.



Your kid is an 04, nothing stopped him from going to any team that woukd take him. Definate parent cut.
3 x

Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 7:14 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Do residency rules work,don’t know. I do know that more kids play hockey in Ontario in open border systems. Add up the GTHL, HNO and all of girls hockey and more kids are free to play where they want. Soccer is the biggest sport in Canada by participation having double the participants as hockey and it has no boundaries.

So to say that boundaries are needed is false as proved by the alternative working better-as in girl’s hockey and soccer is growing much faster than boys hockey, and more kids play in open border systems, and the biggest sport in the province works in an open border system.


Please do justify to us all why minor hockey in SOME areas NEED borders. Also explain why “some” associations have different rules such as for Bantam aged players being allowed to move, than others. Everyone falls under HC rules don’t they?

You are afraid of what people will chose if given REAL
Choice. You have a desire to control other people.



Your kid is an 04, nothing stopped him from going to any team that woukd take him. Definate parent cut.


So now you go from guessing about why the GTHL couldn’t work with boundaries to guessing how old my kid is. Guessing is how you work I see.
2 x

Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 7:23 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Do residency rules work,don’t know. I do know that more kids play hockey in Ontario in open border systems. Add up the GTHL, HNO and all of girls hockey and more kids are free to play where they want. Soccer is the biggest sport in Canada by participation having double the participants as hockey and it has no boundaries.

So to say that boundaries are needed is false as proved by the alternative working better-as in girl’s hockey and soccer is growing much faster than boys hockey, and more kids play in open border systems, and the biggest sport in the province works in an open border system.


Please do justify to us all why minor hockey in SOME areas NEED borders. Also explain why “some” associations have different rules such as for Bantam aged players being allowed to move, than others. Everyone falls under HC rules don’t they?

You are afraid of what people will chose if given REAL
Choice. You have a desire to control other people.



Your kid is an 04, nothing stopped him from going to any team that woukd take him. Definate parent cut.


So now you go from guessing about why the GTHL couldn’t work with boundaries to guessing how old my kid is. Guessing is how you work I see.


Does it matter how it could work? Or if it could work? Not going to change the fact of what the rules are. Get over it.

50% chance of getting it right considering only 2 players moved from A to AAA in Oakville this year. 04 and 06. Either way you had a choice to leave before tryouts started as an 04, or after day 4 as an 06. Typical blaming everyone else instead of looking at your failure to plan ahead.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 8:39 am

Guest wrote:Do residency rules work,don’t know. I do know that more kids play hockey in Ontario in open border systems. Add up the GTHL, HNO and all of girls hockey and more kids are free to play where they want....

You are afraid of what people will chose if given REAL
Choice. You have a desire to control other people.



You need to make up a new beef you have with Oakville. You have been outed several times. It's getting pathetic now. Your kid could have either gotten a permission to skate and left, or if not old enough, could have left when cut from whichever team you didn't make. You can do high school hockey or private school hockey. There are church hockey leagues in your area too.

You can go the ORHL:
"Our rep hockey teams will not have to deal with geographic boundaries at any age and scheduling of our games will be done to minimize disruption to our players’ school studies."
http://ontariorephockeyleague.pointstre ... l/about-us

Girls hockey is not a good example - they have the same system of releases required from previous clubs before moving. The number of girls playing hockey is so small that they'll do anything that's in the interest of the sport, like allowing girls to play wherever they can, by generally not refusing to give releases. It's not so in boys hockey - the numbers are so high that Oakville has several clubs at the same level, as does Burlington. The city of Hamilton has 13 boys hockey associations and two AAA teams. Residency rules help to limit the formation of all-star and favoritism based teams by not allowing all the best or richest kids etc to have absolute control over who is in the team, like in the GTHL.

Nobody has to justify on this site why any borders exist or why some places have different rules. You can get involved with the organizations and learn about the way things are done and propose changes. Or you can go to the ORHL. They have no borders. There, done.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 9:35 am

Guest wrote:
Perhaps you could provide some “real world” stats why the GTHL could not work in a border based system. Let’s face it, that statement is baseless and has no STATS to back it up. No possible way of working with borders, says who-you?

Just sayin.


No stats are necessary. Notice that outside the GTHL the teams generally follow the name of a municipality - Oakville, Burlington, Brampton, Hamilton, Guelph, etc. These are community based non-profit hockey organizations. As a result, they are required to serve the needs of the members of their community above others. They are supported by the community at various levels including funding and in terms of reduced fees (for municipally owned facilities), grants, sponsorship etc. They democratic leadership structures, with elected boards of directors. Members of the organization can elect representatives and petition for change (in theory). The centers have also been arranged such that house league teams are feeders to Rep teams, that are feeders to higher rep teams, usually within the same organization or within a certain geographical subdivision.

In the GTHL, the only thing they have in common is that they are also non-profit organizations. There are a few community based teams, but primarily they are private organizations with individuals as owners, who can buy and sell clubs as they wish. They don't have elected officials and voting systems to encourage community participation. They receive no support from the communities and no subsidies or reductions in facility fees. In fact, most of the commonly used facilities are privately owned. As there is no connection to the community, there is no restriction on the clubs' locations. As there is no logic to a club's location (except for the owner's reasons), some areas have multiple teams whereas others have no teams at all. It is therefore not a logical ask players to play based on geographical boundaries.
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Guest

Re: How can we fight Oakville morally corrupt hockey system?

Postby Guest » Fri May 18, 2018 9:52 am

Guest wrote:

Perhaps you could provide some “real world” stats why the GTHL could not work in a border based system. Let’s face it, that statement is baseless and has no STATS to back it up. No possible way of working with borders, says who-you?

Just sayin.


Again you prove your level of intellect quite amply. There must be a proud grade 2 teacher somewhere. You would require FACTS to support why the GTHL could not run a border system and would compile STATS as to how the system (once in place) was working, however, since the GTHL has NEVER had borders within the league STATS are not available.

FACTS that support the GTHL model are as follows - HUGE population in a small area - Large Number of teams in the same small area - Inability to divide the city appropriately to ensure boundaries contained enough players to support the teams - the fact that the teams move home rinks quite often to take advantage of better arena contracts etc.

Common sense is what dictated that putting borders into the GTHL would never work. Do you have an idea? Please propose it so we can all have a great laugh at your expense.
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